To recap anything I might have missed…

  • Swingers consider their sexual encounters to be recreational.  So, if you are looking for something totally casual with no chance of real growth, commitment etc., than you are probably a swinger.

    This is not to say that things can't change & you could turn to polyamory. It could happen that you meet a couple or a single person you really grow to love so the relationship starts to grow. Saying all that however, I feel it's very rare for swingers to stray from their original intent. In fact, most swingers are afraid to use the word "relationship" or "love". I hope as time passes & poly becomes more out in the open that swingers will turn to true poly when they finally realize that sex without emotion can be very damaging to one's spiritual self.

    Over the past 3 years I've had quite a few swingers write to thank me for opening their eyes to the wonderful poly lifestyle since they had never felt comfortable being a swinger. Like I said before, I feel that any relationship based solely on sex will die off. If sex is glue that's meant to hold relationships together, people would stay together with or without any effort.  We all know that just doesn't happen. Care, dedication & effort are just some of the elements needed to help sustain a living breathing relationship.  This is why when people concentrate solely on their careers or solely on their children, their relationships almost always feel unfulfilled& stagnate & eventually come to an end even if the people stay together. Poly relationships can not live on unless people work at it. This is another reason many people are not suited for poly relationships. They do not wish to exert the effort needed because they want everything to be easy.

  • I've heard a few swingers online say that they need to get to know the person they will swing with first or that they care about everyone they swing with & wish to be friends with them first. In my opinion there is a HUGE difference between caring for someone & having deep emotions or loving someone. For me, this caring/loving difference is a HUGE example of how swingers and polys are different.  Like the BIG difference between acquaintances and friends.

  • A lot of swingers don't care to befriend the other person or call them outside their sexual meetings while some take on more of a social role with them outside the bedroom. Swingers or polysexuals often call people they befriend & have sex with their "fuck friend" or "fuck buddy".  I personally can't stand the terms as I find them crude, vulgar & they totally detach themselves from making love plus in my opinion it takes away the very essence of what a true platonic friend is.  I don't use my friends for sexual purposes but this seems to be the norm in society now that instead of having loving relationships, whenever one gets horny, they just screw their friend.

  • As you know, all swingers are looking for sex, but I also found out that some swinger's relationships are failing & they think bringing in a 3rd person to have sex with them will do the trick. In my opinion never works & it degrades the person who they are using to help mend their relationship. I felt this way when I was used by couples & I've had others tell me they felt the same way.

  • Based on my experience, I feel that swingers hide things about their lives from other swingers they are having sex with. 

    I've heard of swingers cheating on their wives & their wives don't even know they swing.  Now logically when it's all about sex, honesty is not something that is high on people's list.

    There have been some polys that have cheated on their partners, but there have been so few, that there aren't enough to count.

    Also, one has to ask whether they were true polys to begin with or just jumping into the lifestyle because they could.

    Most poly people I've talked to are very very honest because a poly relationship can NOT work without complete honesty.

  • Good communication also seems to be lacking with some swingers I found & I am not just talking them communicating with the single females or males they have sex with, but also amongst themselves.

    When a single isn't an equal and no emotional feelings are involved, how can there really be good communication?

    When the husband is trying to get his wife to have sex with someone else so he can have a 3some, how can there be good communication?

    This is something I hear happens all the time & the wife or partner goes along with it just to please the male. :-O

  • Swingers are either soft or hard/full swingers, but regardless, they have rules about how these sex gatherings work.  

    Soft means couples stay together but share the same room with other couples to add to the excitement.  

    Hard or full means there is complete swapping of partners.

    Sometimes when a couple is seeing a single woman, they won't even allow intercourse between the male partner & the single female.

    All of these rules & regulations pertaining to sex makes me wonder why even bother.

    Even back in my swinging days I would never have gone for that BS.

  • On the other hand, some swingers may also swing separately.  Each person in a couple goes off and finds their own separate sexual partner(s) & then when they get home, they have sex again..

    I'm not sure how I feel about this.  If it still only revolves around sex, than I feel it is wrong.  I want all of my partners to at least be friends with each other they aren't going to be intimate with one another.

  • Some swingers have rules like, "We will see this couple or single only once per month."

    Two men I talked to about this told me the couple each was seeing wouldn't allow them to see anyone else & these couples only saw these men once a month.

    When I heard this, I freaked.  The control some swingers have over others even when it comes to sex is amazing.  I'm sorry, but I can't handle people who control others because of their own insecurities.

    Once again we see inequality between the partners in swinging relationships.

  • The few times I was with swingers, I found the men to be complete idiots.  They liked to direct the women on what to do with one another sexually.  Back then I didn't have the balls, but if anyone did that to me now, I'd get up and walk away.

    And it wasn't just the men, one woman wanted to know exactly what I was going to do the minute we got together and another couple asked me that same kind of question once too.

    I'm not a porno star; I'm not in a porno movie. I'm a real live human being that doesn't believe sexuality should be staged, pre-planned or scripted.

    Sure somewhere down the road I may surprise my partner, but that is my doing alone & I would never do it in this cheap unemotional manner.

    Great love making should be spontaneous as that is when it is the most exciting.

  • The word "primary" is used both in swinging & poly terms, but with different meanings.

    In swinging terms, a primary is the person they are married to or having the serious emotional relationship with. Usually when they are a couple, they call one another a "primary partner".  

    Their primary comes first & anyone else that enters the relationship is not considered an equal.  The 3rd person is just a play thing which is why they often use the term "play" when they talk about their encounters.

    When was the last time you referred to your girl/boyfriend/husband or wife as a play thing?

    Yes of course you should always have fun with your partners & for me this is an absolute must, but I don't cheapen my time with my partners by using the word "play", especially when I know the meaning behind it online & in the swinging lifestyle.

    In the poly lifestyle the word "primary" is also used, but with a different definition.

    Primary is usually the person you are married to or have a house and/or children with.

    Your second partner is called your "secondary".

    I don't like these terms even in the poly lifestyle only because it implies that one partner is more worthy than the other.

    I believe in equality within a poly relationship.

    Sure we have partners that we knew first & knew longer, but over time that gap should close where everyone feels a part of the family.

    I don't want to imply that there aren't problems in a poly relationship too.

    If poly people just rush into finding new partners & don't write down what they are seeking & really discuss it thoroughly, there will be problems.

    If the next person to come along isn't compatible& they are being chosen just because they are poly, that is not a good reason to hook up.

    If the poly people already in the relationship have poor relationship skills, adding in more people will only weaken the relationship further.

    I find that poly couples have a hard time dating & seeing themselves as individuals.

    We are ALL individual human beings.

    Only seeing yourself as a couple that has no self identity makes it a lot harder for a 3rd to respect you & get to know you as a person.

    Also being an independent person makes you more attractive to both your primary partner & any future partners that may come along.

    I always say that there are 3 types of relationships in a mono relationship. Your relationship with yourself, your relationship with your partner & your relationship together as two.

    If one person in the relationship finds a new partner for themselves & the primary partner (for lack of a better word) can't handle this, there will be problems.

    The person who has the new partner ALWAYS has to look out for both partners to make sure they are giving them both equal time & consideration.

    There are times when poly people don't screen well & allow a non poly person to come into their lives who is lying & telling them they are poly.

    This person then tries to break up the already existing couple.

    Sometimes the 3rd person comes into the relationship & is not made to feel welcome or eventually equal.

    Often times couples have a really difficult time finding singles because they limit themselves to only females.

    They also place the rule that if she doesn't love both of us, she gets neither of us.

    I totally feel this is not what true poly is all about.

    Poly does not stipulate which gender we should love. Love is love.

    Even if you are not bi, you can still start to love your partner's new partner & become a family.

    While female swingers tend to view females as pieces of meat for sexual pleasure, bi poly women are totally different.

    The first time I ever felt that a woman wanted to talk to me as a human being was when I started getting involved in the poly lifestyle.

    Just like in the swinging lifestyle, you should never add another person into your relationship to help fix it.

    If you want to help your relationship, first decide if you still want to be in a relationship with that person.  Find yourself spiritually and get rid of a lot of your past negative issues going all the way back to your childhood.  You can ask me how I helped myself in this way by e-mailing me.

    Learn how to communicate your feelings more openly to your partner.

    The best way to accomplish that is by learning who you are as a person & tapping into your feelings & finding yourself.  

    Learn how to work through and solve any problems you are having with your partner by making sure both of you consider the other an equal.  

    Learn how to really make love, learn how spirituality & sexuality go hand in hand and how to be more romantic.  

    Take time out each day to spend with your partner(s).  

    If after all that you still aren't making any headway, my guess, without talking to either of you, is to say that both of you have grown apart & while remaining friends is the positive way to go, it is best for the both of you to part as a relationship couple.

  • I find that there are too many rules in the swinging lifestyle, but then I even found out that polys have a lot of rules too that I don't agree with.

    There always needs to be common sense rules in any household to keep things organized, but the one thing I feel you can't do is rule someone's life & feelings.

    When it comes to those types of rules, they are usually governed by fear.

    Fear of loss or rejection.

    Poly is not about leaving one person for another, it's about building a poly family.

    When you stipulate that she can't be a part of our family because she is only attracted or compatible to one person within the couple, you are telling your partner who they can love & not love.

    How is this any different than the strict rules of monogamy?

    It isn't in my opinion.

    Most poly couples wish to have a closed poly relationship & while I see their point of view & it would be the most logical, life is not always run by logic.

    I've heard of poly couples that have been searching for years for their perfect female poly companion never to find her because they won't open up & allow freedom into the relationship.

    There can be trust issues or jealousy because one person says "what if they grow without me" or "what if I never find another partner for myself".

    In the meantime all these worries prevent the very essence of poly... The freedom to love others that we feel compatible with.

    So why do couples not search out other couples you ask?

    Well there are a few reasons that I can't relate to…

    • the male is homophobic & even if he & the other male aren't sexually involved, he just can't stand the thought because of his fears.
    • the male has too many control issues & wants to be the MAN of the house. Internally he probably fears men & what he thinks they will do even though he has never been in a poly relationship to even see how it would play out.
    • the female really wants just a female because she thinks the man in her life is enough. I find a lot of these females lean more towards lesbianism & the only man they can be with is their husband.
    • the female doesn't want to hurt her male partner, so she purposely avoids finding other men she may love.
    • maybe they feel it's too crowded a relationship with 4 people so they would rather have no poly relationship than try it & see how it goes.
  • I find for the most part that swingers are very friendly people, but No doesn't always mean No.  This also depends on the swinger's club, the owners of the club & whether they take advantage of every person that walks through their doors.

    Some swinger's clubs lose their members because the male part of the couple forces himself upon every female that walks through the door.

  • I've heard that some swingers get together to do dinner, but dinner still doesn't mean their primary intent isn't sex & dinner doesn't mean it's a real relationship that grows based on love & commitment.
  • I find swingers to be less open minded than poly people in a general sense, but sometimes poly people can appear more conservative in the bedroom & not willing to experiment as much.

    Some swingers think all poly people want to wait until they get married or fall in love to have intimacy.

    Some times they are right as I've talked to a couple of poly men who won't start an intimate relationship with a woman until they are in love with her.

    Some swingers feel that poly people are stuffy and not fun just because poly people want to be loved, respected, nurtured, have commitment& strive for a relationship that will grow.

    A lot of this has to do with society's views on sexuality.

    If the person embraces their sexuality, something must be wrong with them.

    How can you love & be wild at the same time.

    Most males can't conceptualize being in the bedroom with me & making love with me & another man or woman.

    To him it is all about sex & not a loving relationship that includes intimacy with more than one person.

    People still have this idea that once you get married or you are in a long term relationship, all the fun should stop ! I find that to be very sad.

    You have to make fun in your relationship.

  • I find swingers to be less intelligent than poly people.

    Whether it's because they have no interest in using their brain, only their bodies, I don't know. All I know is that they don't talk to me about anything that matters in life, all they do is act like they are picking you up in a bar & polys are known for their high levels of intelligence.

    This doesn't mean every poly is like this, I've just found many that are & other polys feel the same way.

  • Swinging & Poly couples...

    I came across one or two women in the poly groups I frequent that said their husbands were swingers & they are poly.

    I don't agree with this at all !

    One woman said she will partake in a 3some with his so-called "toys" (god I hate that word) & she admits she is doing this just for him.  

    She says he wants nothing more than sex from these other women & he is just there to fool around.

    She can only have other people in her life that she cares & loves which is fine with him so long as they are all friends.

    Personally I could never handle this situation at all.

    First I would not want a relationship with someone who sleeps around with everyone just so he can say he screws all different types of women.  I just couldn't respect a person like that.  

    Second, when you don't know these "other" people, the chances of STDs being transmitted is very high.

    I don't have a problem with my partner seeing people I am not having a romantic relationship with, but at the very least we should have the same value system & there is a HUGE difference between the value of love & having sex just to have sex.

    I would never recommend doing things that go against your value system.

    That only harms you spiritually as your life progresses.

    Do things that make you proud, happy & comfortable with yourself & your partner. :)

    Respect yourself & others will respect you.

    This brings me to my next page about looking at yourself...


It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both incisive probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by twelve dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper

— Rod Serling

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Last updated 19-Mar-07